Well… I work my ass off with pretty much everyone in this community, I’ve never had council power and I don’t even want to. I just want to do my arts and stuff. So… There is no space to allocate Limoeiro in another BR DAO since all already have their roadmaps in progress. I find it regrettable that this possibility was even been considered. I feel uncomfortable to see a disagreement over the size of the Brazilian community where the options for qualified people for Jobs are still limited. It means it’s better to work with someone who doesn’t know things but is new than wanting to have the most qualified people in the team? And then when the attempt to teach comes, the creatives can’t see value. And there is, the snake keeps eating its tail. Going nowere, and wasting our time. Do you know that there is work before the proposal, right? Thank you Blua, for talking about positivity towards us. Sometimes it’s hard not to take it personally when the same people are continually being held back from doing their good work. I swear… You “creatives” are killing my Near dream day by day. Please APENAS MELHOREM! For everyone’s sake. 
Hmmmm… Então se eu virar council da Limoeiro e contratar a Natacha como freela pra fazer o job tá tudo bem? 
Eu não sou moderador, mas posso dar minha opinião.
Os moderadores têm de verificar se há uma comunidade ‘singular’ e real (claro) por detrás da DAO. Se o council for de pessoas que não são council noutra DAO não há qualquer problema, independentemente de essas pessoas participarem em actividades de outras DAOs. Inclusive, colaborações e participação são coisas positivas, não negativas, certo?
Em relação à @Natashacremonese isso depende de para que seria contratada. Para fazer o design de algo? Claro, não tem qualquer problema!! Para colaborar na criação de um projecto? Não vejo qualquer problema. Para gerir a DAO? Já vejo um problema.
(atenção Natasha que eu nem faço ideia se és council de outras DAOs, não andei a pesquisar isso; só estou a tentar ajudar com os conceitos/problemas que estão aqui a surgir).
Por exemplo, usando-me a mim mesmo para evitar dizer coisas que não são verdade sobre outras pessoas, eu SÓ sou council da Incubadora. Eu não ganho um tostão com trabalho fora da Incubadora a não ser que seja trabalho de freelancer.
Quando o meu amigo @hevertonharieno criou a DAO dele, com a minha mentoria, eu não entrei no council da Cudo, pelo contrário, ajudei a galera e eles chamaram pessoas ‘da comunidade deles’.
Fui council da VRDAO durante uns meses ‘a pedido do então council da creatives dao’ e assim que surgiram membros capazes de ser council eu saí.
Ajudei a Writer’s Guild a criar DAO e insisti que outros fossem council. Seria para mim elementar meter-me como council e ganhar x$ por mês com um mínimo de esforço (até porque já estou nisto há mais de um ano e sei como tudo funciona).
Aquilo que eu acho que seria vantajoso para este projecto é partir do princípio que a regra surgiu para combater abusos sérios e que é complicado para uma equipa de moderadores decidir caso a caso. Então, o mais lógico, na minha opinião, é garantir que a comunidade Limoeiro se estabeleça com essas regras em mente.
EN
I am not a moderator, but I can give my opinion.
Moderators have to check if there is a ‘unique’ and real (of course) community behind the DAO. If the council is people who are not council in another DAO there is no problem, regardless of whether those people participate in activities in other DAOs. Even collaborations and participation are positive things, not negative, right?
Regarding @Natashacremonese it depends on what she would be hired for. To design something? Sure, no problem! To collaborate in the creation of a project? I don’t see any problem. To manage the DAO? I already see a problem.
(beware Natasha that I have no idea if you are even council of other DAOs, I haven’t been researching that; I’m just trying to help with the concepts/problems that are coming up here).
For example, using myself to avoid saying things that are untrue about other people, I am ONLY council of the Incubator. I don’t make a dime from work outside the Incubator unless it’s freelance work.
When my friend @hevertonharieno created his DAO, with my mentorship, I didn’t join Cudo’s council, on the contrary, I helped them and they called people ‘from their community’.
I was VRDAO council for a few months ‘at the request of the then creatives dao council’ and as soon as they came up with members capable of being council, I left.
I helped the Writer’s Guild create DAO and insisted that others be council. It would be elementary for me to get on as a council and make x$ a month with a minimum of effort (not least because I have been at this for over a year now and know how it all works).
What I think would be advantageous for this project is to assume that the rule was created to fight serious abuses and that it is complicated for a team of moderators to decide case by case. So the most logical thing, in my opinion, is to make sure that the Limoeiro community is established with these rules in mind.
Hey @blusw Blua! I must inform that I don’t work with this group and don’t take part in the same DAO as them… Thank you!
Best,
Ghini
Entendi. Bom, eu ainda estou confusa como uma comunidade se cria antes mesmo de começar. Sendo que a ideia da DAO é justamente fazer um novo grupo, trazendo pessoas e ensinando como a comunidade funciona, inclusive bem diferente do que a gente vê por aí (onboardings gigantes e pessoas colocadas pra dentro do Nearverse sem nenhuma ajuda de como funcionam as coisas). Eu mesme, já fiz parte de um projeto que morreu antes mesmo de começar em grande parte por causa das confusões das novas regras por aqui, então talvez seja gatilho meu, tipo de quem não sabe nada de nada. Te agradeço @frnvpr você é uma das minhas pessoas favoritas por aqui. Não está sendo fácil mas não vamos deitar, já estou organizando um jeito de colocar meu projeto em prática enaltecendo a Limoeiro, engajando o povo, mostrando serviço e TRABALHANDO DE GRAÇA que me parece que é o que tem pra alguns nesse rolê aqui. 
And to finish, one last question very genuinely asked: can not person council in more than one DAO but can moderator of creatives council of DAO? I was seeing here that coincidentally, these DAOs never have their last proposals rejected. And I close my case here. I’m tired… Norms for some and not for all, not cool.
eheh, como sabes posso ter as minhas opiniões, mas tento ser justo, correcto, e digo as coisas para que as pessoas tenham um maior contexto sobre a) ou b), visto que eu vi a maior parte das coisas acontecer à medida que aconteciam.
Essa linha que citei é uma das ideias que mais cria problemas e confusões. Pensa nisso ao contrário: idealmente, a NF quer que comunidades já existentes comecem a usar tokens NEAR, astrodao, etc, não que novas comunidades sejam criadas devido à existência de fundos.
Isso não quer dizer (óbvio) que o segundo caso seja proibido, mas é menos interessante do que o primeiro, e as regras ‘tentam’ mostrar isso.
É positivo que novas comunidades surjam por causa da Internet e da N em particular, portanto elas não tinham de existir antes, MAS tendo em conta que há um cap de 5k para DAOs e tendo em conta que o que se viu no passado foi uma tentativa constante de dar a volta a esta regra (que foi criada pela NF), surgiu a regra que agora vos está a dificultar a vida.
Como disse ali em cima, sugiro que organizem a DAO de uma forma que torna claro para quem julga que esta é uma comunidade específica, com membros específicos e objectivos específicos.
Para mim que não tenho um cavalo na corrida, ao ler o tópico fico com a ideia de que os membros da DAO acharam que estavam a ser atacados nas suas capacidades e ideias, quando acho que os moderadores estavam a alertar para uma regra específica, que, eu concordo, está a ser quebrada.
E é por eu achar que é relativamente fácil de entender/resolver é que resolvi comentar, dando contexto e algum histórico.
EN
eheh, as you know I may have my opinions, but I try to be fair, correct, and say things so that people have more context on a) or b), since I saw most things happen as they happened.
That line I quoted is one of the ideas that creates the most problems and confusion. Think about it backwards: ideally, NF wants existing communities to start using NEAR tokens, astrodao, etc, not new communities to be created because of the existence of funds.
This is not to say (obviously) that the second case is forbidden, but it is less interesting than the first, and the rules ‘try’ to show that.
It is positive that new communities arise because of the Internet and the N in particular, so they didn’t have to exist before, BUT given that there is a 5k cap for DAOs and given that what you have seen in the past was a constant attempt to get around this rule (which was created by the NF), the rule that is now making life difficult for you came about.
As I said up there, I suggest that you organize DAO in a way that makes it clear to those who judge that this is a specific community with specific members and specific goals.
For me who doesn’t have a horse in the race, reading the thread I get the idea that DAO members felt they were being attacked in their abilities and ideas, when I think the moderators were warning of a specific rule, which, I agree, is being broken.
And it is because I think it is relatively easy to understand/solve that I decided to comment, giving context and some background.
Acho que a regra actualmente é que cada membro pode ser council de 2 DAOs, e não mais.
Pode ser council de uma DAO e ser moderador (até porque como não há ninguém contratado pela NF para este trabalho convém que os moderadores tenham experiência na comunidade; isso faz com que as DAOs a que eles pertencem tenham sempre/quase sempre as suas propostas aprovadas, uma vez que sabem perfeitamente como seguir as regras e ver os seus pedidos aprovados pelos moderadores [atenção que uma aprovação pelos moderadores não significa aprovação pela council/comunidade]) mas diria que ser council de 2 e ser moderador é complicado, nem que seja por falta de tempo. Sinceramente não tenho acompanhado esse tipo de coisa desde que deixei de ser moderador, mas se houver pessoas que ocupem os 3 postos ao mesmo tempo então definitivamente a comunidade devia reclamar.
Honestamente, acho que membros da comunidade que têm dúvidas acerca de alguns destes procedimentos podem e devem pedir a moderadores uma reunião para fazer perguntas. É complicado fazer algumas das perguntas nas community calls. Quando eu entrei na comunidade tive amplo apoio e esclarecimento de dúvidas por parte de quem acompanhava a comunidade. Acho que esse acompanhamento deve continuar. @creativesdao-mods
EN
I think the rule currently is that each member can be council of 2 DAOs, and no more.
You can be a council of a DAO and be a moderator (because as there is no one hired by NF for this job, moderators should have experience in the community; this makes the DAOs they belong to always/almost always have their proposals approved, since they know perfectly well how to follow the rules and have their requests approved by the moderators [note that an approval by the moderators does not mean approval by the council/community]) but I would say that being council of 2 and being a moderator is complicated, if only for lack of time. I honestly haven’t followed this kind of thing since I stopped being a moderator, but if there are people who hold all 3 positions at the same time then definitely the community should complain.
Honestly, I think community members who have questions about some of these procedures can and should ask moderators for a meeting to ask questions. It is complicated to ask some of the questions in community calls. When I joined the community I had ample support and clarification of questions from those following the community. I think that this follow-up should continue. @creativesdao-mods
Meodeos agora sim deu o nó na minha cabeça. Se estamos envolvendo pessoas de dentro da comunidade nos falam pra juntar com alguma outra DAO porque é a “mesma coisa”, se estamos querendo trazer e ensinar novas pessoas também não é o caminho… Ahahahaah socorro! E eu sou só uma pessoa com um projeto em mente apresentado pra quantas DAOs quiserem colocar em prática, ideia esta ligada a autonomia e autosustentabilidade através da criação de coleções. Achei que isso era uma premissa pra aprovação nas regras novas. A Limoeiro tem um gomo social, vai arrecadar fundos, fazer doações, ninguém está aqui pra tirar o dinheiro da NF sem pensar em contrapartidas e fucking métricas. Por isso me frustra ver que as iniciativas não são apoiadas pelos creatives sendo que a gente tá dando tudo de si pra ser criativo e dar jeito de fazer um monte de coisa que, atenção, valem muito mais do que o dinheiro. E ao mesmo tempo, projetos questionáveis seguem sendo aprovados sem muito ou quase nenhum questionamento. DAO cheia de fake de bounty ocorre, nada acontece feijoada. E o povo de fora não vê que no Brasil o Near 5dolares vale 5x mais e não é brincadeira pra ninguém, aqui é trampo true.
Acho que o que os moderadores estão a dizer é que idealmente propunham o projecto a uma das DAOs já existentes, certo? E essa/s DAOs teriam de incluir no cap de 5k.
De alguma maneira os moderadores fazem a ponte entre a NF e a comunidade, ou seja, os objectivos da NF têm de ser considerados.
Pelo que percebi, só a questão do council é que está a travar o projecto…
Se está a ficar mais confuso peço desculpa.
(seja como for, eu não sou moderador, portanto posso estar errado, ok?)
Não percebo muito bem isto, acho que o dinheiro envolvido é importante para toda a gente, certo? E duvido que a NF queira saber se o dinheiro nos faz falta ou não, acho que a lógica é que tem de haver benefícios dos dois lados para funcionar… E que os moderadores garantem que certas regras são cumpridas, para que a NF não feche o Vertical.
Seja como for vou-me calar, pois posso não estar a ajudar.
EN
I think what the moderators are saying is that ideally they would propose the project to one of the existing DAOs, right? And that DAO/s would have to include it in the 5k cap.
Somehow the moderators bridge the gap between the NF and the community, meaning the goals of the NF have to be considered.
From what I understand, it is only the council issue that is holding the project back…
If it’s getting more confusing I apologize.
(anyway, I am not a moderator, so I could be wrong, ok?)
I don’t really understand this, I think the money involved is important for everyone, right? And I doubt that NF cares if we miss the money or not, I think the logic is that there has to be benefits on both sides for it to work… And that the moderators make sure that certain rules are followed, so that NF doesn’t shut down Vertical.
anyway, I’m gonna shut up since I might not be helping.
Ah não, eu estou gostando muito dessa conversa com você e veja, nenhum moderador está tendo boa vontade de fazer o mesmo. Bom, pelo que entendi, não fomos aprovados mesmo mexendo no conselho… Então seguimos aqui, supondo e tentado ver a luz no fim desse túnel. Pelo bem do diálogo mesmo. Obrigade mais uma vez @frnvpr e @blusw por se dedicarem um pouco mais a compreender o que está se passando e realmente ajudar a gente a melhorar.
I think that’s pretty much what I think too @frnvpr . And one of the points was : the possibility of those DAOS become council of Creatives.
This go far away from the capacity, or if the DAOS are community or projects. As long several DAOS are part of big community- in the case Brasil - this will happen. Supporting each other. We aren’t here to win in the votes of Creatives DAO.
- other point, any chance of new councils making part of Limoeiro? The unique constructive review is “allocate” the project to another DAO? Passing through the philosophy of the project and everything?
Well it seems I will leave this here…
Etiquette
Thank you @blusw for your response. Mostly of we are here a long time and know the work of each other.
The Limoeiro DAO proposal is special, it has been prepared with great care and striving to follow all the guidelines. I really hope that all those responsible for evaluating proposals come to see what we intend to do. I keep hoping that everything goes well.
This is pretty much our concern.
That a group of 5-6 people getting funded for 20-25k per month and getting closer to vote for each other as creatives councils.
We want to avoid this as this will basically give a group of people monopoly over the funding.
Like I said before, I personally like your work a lot and I’m glad that NEAR has you all to add value to it.
However funding for another project needs to go thorough one of the associated DAOs so that a monopolistic group of DAOs is not created who can vote for each other to get funded.
Thank you 
I’d request you to reorganise the funding via other 4 DAOs you guys are a part of.
Do you really think it’s viable, I assume you’re aware of the other DAOs’ projects. This suggestion is impossible to happen, so is it this or nothing? What options do we have to make Limoeiro DAO possible? New counsil board? Where are the other moderators? Someone help?
I guarantee that my proposal will happen and I hope that the community will embrace the suggestion that we are going to bring it as a Bounty prize as the Creatives don’t want to fund our DAO. Coming soon…
Eu falei em fazer dos limões limonada e caipirinha, mas nossa! Tá difícil 
I would love to see your project come to life but like we’ve discussed in the above posts, we cannot have the same 4-5 people running 4-5 DAOs and asking for 20-25K funding monthly.
You can allocate funding for this project from one of the associated DAOs.
Closing the proposal as per the discussions above.
It’s very sad to read this tred with many passive aggressive. Please try to be more polite my @LulucaL , this thing of behavior on the forum just make the comunication harder.
If you please try to consider that there is other users here just trying to do they job, and nobody has being against you personally, but you mite bring some antipathy by the kind of comments that we can see in this session. I ask you carefully to try to understand the others point of view, without blaming or shading, this has being very counterproductive.
best wishes, hoping forward comprehension
Aí @blusw até aqui isso? Por favor, me poupe miga. Não, não compreendo… A gente respeita quando é respeitade. Tá cheio de absurdos aqui nesse rolê mas a antipática sou eu ahahahha. Inclusive achei super desnecessária a sua puxada de orelha. E por favor, pare de fazer seus comentários pejorativos sobre mim publicamente, já conversamos sobre isso e você podia muito bem ter dado o recado pessoalmente sem fazer esse papelão aqui. Acho errado como os creatives estão lidando com este projeto e tenho todo o direito de dizer isso.
It’s very sad a sua passive aggressivedade. Please try to be menos escorregadia e defenda sua comunidade (toda, não só a tua DAO), this thing of behavior on the forum just make the comunication harder, AÍ EU CONCORDO, MELHORE A SUA TAMBEM, afinal você é mod, você tem regras de conduta e uma delas é saber lidar bem com pessoas como eu, enfaticas, direto ao ponto, sem censurar.
If you please try to consider that eu e a Limoeiro estamos just trying to do nosso job, and nobody has being against you personally, como você está fazendo aqui, julgando a minha forma de ser ó: but you mite bring some antipathy by the kind of comments that we can see in this session. I ask you carefully to try to understand o point of view de quem vai perder de fazer um projeto incrível, without blaming or shading ahtah exatamente como você tá fazendo, blaming e shading me pode? this has being very counterproductive, aprendi com os novos mods do Creatives a ser assim, contraproducente. É o legado de vocês, não meu.
best wishes obrigada, querida, hoping forward comprehension, aí ficou difícil.
Bejas
L.
Good evening everyone
First of all, I would like to apologize for my absence these past few days, I just went through a process of moving house, and needed to put my body and mind in the real world to be able to execute this mission.
Unfortunately with this choice I had my proposal closed without even having the chance to say anything, this made me sad and full of anxiety on my first day in the new house.
Anyway I want to bring up a few points about everything I read here, after all I’m not giving up on building the Limoeiro.
First, I am very sad about what this post has become, a discussion, not very constructive, and without the slightest chance of any chance of being able to evolve.
You know Cryptonaut, in your comment you say
Do you really think that’s what this is about? Power? Really?
I don’t know what country you’re from, but I’m from a country that doesn’t have equal opportunity for all, here the Rich and the Elite massacre the poor; a government that steals from education and health to fill the pockets of those who already have a lot; a government that turns us into cheap labor for the system, minimum wages that are not enough to live, eat, and live. Here, if you are poor, you survive. Here art is not for everyone.
Web 3.0 comes as a dream, as a new possibility, a new opportunity, a space for everyone, where everyone can have a light in the sun.
It has nothing to do with power, it has to do with opportunity.
I invite you to work on a project with me so that you can get to know me better, thus avoiding speeches that do not match my character.
Frnvpr , thank you very much for that message here…
And I agree that there is no community to run, but the idea was always to create a community of our own!
I’ve been in the ecosystem since February and I’ve seen DAOs being born that didn’t have communities either, and they were created, for example the Philosophers DAOs and the Writers Guild, which have a community apart from the active members of other DAOs.
A community is not created overnight, and they also need affinities, knowledge, and growing together to stay united.
Our onboarding comes with full responsibility and support so that members are accompanied during the exploration of the ecosystem, and at the end of the process can participate in the activities offered by the DAO in the following month.
We are not approaching people on the street to bring them into the ecosystem, there is a search for these people, a filter, to bring interested people who have something to do with the DAO’s activity, and who can add to the construction of the community.
I have an instagram profile with over 12,000 followers, focused on traditional illustration, a niche of people interested in drawing and developing their drawing techniques, a group of people who came organically and I never did a boost.
If I was able to build this in 3 years alone and without a cent of investment in my pocket, just art for art’s sake, imagine what can be possible to build with a team that also believes in the project and wants it to develop? Really, guys, it is very possible, and already within a new system that is DAO, web 3.0, with opportunities that are not possible in the real world!
Freelancer in the ecosystem, I have performed this role many times and I want to bring some points with my vision and experience about it.
Because I don’t have a job in the real world, I have more “free” time to dedicate myself within the ecosystem, and I like it here, I strive to study and learn, I am really dedicated to NEAR, it showed me that it is possible to be what I am in essence, to be an artist and not surrender to the capitalist system and become another cog in this bankrupt system.
I think my work is hired as a freelancer for three reasons, first for having good work and dedication, speaking the same language as the contractors, and lack of labor.
For example, the flyers, besides myself, I know only Iago who offers.
Two people offering for a handful of Brazilian DAOs.
I think this is not enough, but this is a matter of personal interest of the members.
I know many who prefer to participate only in the bounties because it brings the feeling of a challenge and not of work.
It’s very personal, jobs are showing up and hands are being requested.
For me I see it as an opportunity to develop myself in the network to one day follow my own path.
Regarding the point you make:
I am not a member of these DAOs, I am only a member of Gambiarra and now Limoeiro.
Even this month I did not propose a project for Gambiarra, participating this month only as an active member.
I believe that no DAO was founded with an entire community ready and with people who were not part of any other DAO as members and board; because it requires a minimum of knowledge of how everything works.
I see going through DAOs as a school, a learning how everything works, evolution.
Ideas are not born ready, they evolve as you understand how things work and according to the needs, just like the Creatives DAO guidelines are being built according to the needs.
We are being part of a new system, learning to work in community and to grow that way.
It’s very normal that new DAOs are born from the nuclei of other DAOs with new ideas, new projects, ways of managing, concepts, everything… Strange would be if there was no evolution.
Initially the problem was Natasha, she asked to be removed as a member, and even then she will not stop supporting the project.
What is the problem now?
I am council on Limoeiro and a member of Gambiarra.
Carol is council on Children and Limoeiro.
L is a member of Ina and Limoeiro only.
Bea is a member of Octopode and Limoeiro.
Alexandre is a member of Gambiarra, Octopode and Limoeiro.
Point me to where it is out of guideline here?
I don’t intend to present these projects in DAOs that I collaborate on because these projects have a different objective than the objective of each of these DAOs, just read the introduction of each of them, including ours.
I want help from the moderators to improve the project so that it fits within the community guidelines, and honestly, we are within the guidelines now, and if we are not, I would like this point to be clear.
We are here to build and not to destroy, please guys, be specific and objective in your points.
I am doing a serious job and I would like the moderators to help me do it.
Let’s raise these points, clarify them for both sides and be able to build a bridge together and no longer a barrier.
@Cryptonaut @blusw @adrianseneca @Monish016 @williamx @Paul @ted.iv @FritzWorm @kc_sollano @hevertonharieno
I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you for your attention.
Isa
Love u Isa tnx for this 