I hope you are well and had a good start to the week!
For those who don’t know me yet, I work on the Project Ops team, which is a subteam of the NEAR @ConciergeTeam initiative. A more significant part of my scope of work is to onboard new projects on NEAR.
Back in March, I started the NEAR representative initiative to attend high-profile events to connect, make new contacts, and grow within the community and in June I attended the first event in Barcelona.
I think the NearCon needs little explanation. It is the biggest event in Near where many projects from the Near ecosystem will be. It’s also the biggest community event, which means if you want to meet someone from the Near ecosystem in person, NearCon is the best place to do it.
I’m always supportive of your initiatives and would be very happy to meet you in Lisbon!
With that being said, I have a couple of questions;
In light of that, I’ve been living in Lisbon, Portugal, for almost a year now, and I also attended the first NearCon here; I can say that I have a good understanding of the cost of living and various locations in the city of Lisbon.
There are quite a lot of options from Berlin to Lisbon actually
example, there’s a direct flight (for the selected dates) from €294 to a maximum of €345 if you want to include bags as well
and there are also cheaper offers if you switch the days a bit.
I got to admit, the rents in Lisbon did skyrocket in the last few years, but for 5 nights (the event is only 3 days), the requested amount is relatively high; if you want to stay in a 5-star location with premium services, in Avenida da Liberdade or Marquês de Pombal for example, that’s the actual costs, but there are pretty few good and cheaper options;
Lisbon is pretty known for excellent Hostels with private rooms, which prices can vary from 20€ to 70€ per night!
If you don’t like Hostels, well, no worries, you can rent a whole apartment in the fantastic historical center of Alfama for 5 days, even if the event is only 3, for around 325€ and it’s only approximately 3.1km from the event location, Link: https://bit.ly/3z54prS
If you would like to go for the classic Hotel route, there are quite a few options, for example:
Another great feature that Lisbon offers to its citizens and tourists it’s the transportation card, with the cost of €40 you can use any public transport available for a month which includes: Metro, Bus, Trains and also the boat to move on the other side of the river; Reference: Buy - Metropolitano de Lisboa, EPE - English
You can also purchase a single-trip ticket, which might vary between €1.5 and €2.
If you don’t want to use public transportation, there are plenty of solutions; UBER is way cheaper than in other European countries; you can use Uber’s competitor which is called BOLT as well which offers even more affordable prices,
For example, from the center of Lisbon to the venue will cost you around €6; if you have to attend the event for 3 days, let’s round it up to €15 per trip, considering a further distance and night hours as well, will be 30€ per day (round trip) for 3 days that would be €90.
As mentioned above, I attended NEARCon last year, and it was a fantastic experience. I also offered to work as a volunteer to help out the staff and our community members. What are your specific goals for this event;
We won’t be able to present who we are and our achievements so far, given that the concierge team won’t exist anymore, even if that has always been my goal to speak about the tremendous opportunity given to each of us.
In such a case, what would you offer, and what value would you bring to the event.
as you might know, I’ve always appreciated your figure and your hard work so far; you are an extremely hardworking person.
This is just out of curiosity since we are still the Concierge Team, and such a request can also generate a negative look on the team and other team members.
I would strongly advise you to cover the expenses and, after the event, just create a report showcasing what you’ve accomplished and request an eventual cost refund.
I’ll also attend the event and will help like last year if needed;
Also, yes, I live in Lisbon, but I’m not asking for any expenses refund since this event is for the NEAR Community and to express our appreciation of what NEAR has given us so far!
Lisbon seems quite affordable as per your views Stan . Guess other proposals for NEARCon attendance funding would also take this comment/guide as an example. There are few proposals I have seen. Maybe you can comment your views there as well
Hey @stanisnear, thank you for taking so much time to do research for my proposal, I really appreciate that. I would like to address your questions and also mention that your calculations are presented very simply and it is assumed that everything comes out as planned. In my experience, this is not the case.
I don’t know if you are aware, but if you are searching for flights from Lisbon, they will show you cheaper than if I am searching from Germany. The cheapest flight that is shown to me costs 396€ and is WITHOUT luggage. That means there is another 48€ on it, which would bring me back to 450€.
This so does not make sense, since the event goes from September 11-14.
No idea where you got that from, but the event goes from 11-14, which is 4 days if you stay the last day as well. Because usually you check in 1 day before the event and leave one day after the event, except the event ends in the morning/noon and you get a flight in the afternoon/evening.
Maybe you should connect me and @Klint with those beautiful and excellent hotels?
Below you can see the prices that Klint has researched for his proposal. Funny that these are not far from my research.
So you think Klint also did a wrong calucation here?
These are the overall transportation costs, that is from me to the airport and back. From Lisbon airport to the hotel and back and transportation costs during the stay in Lisbon, like public transport/taxi. I assume you never did business trips?
I have described this above. Otherwise, please also have a look at Klint’s proposal, which comes to the same conclusions as I do.
I don’t think so.
Stan, did you even read through my proposal, it’s mentioned above.
The thing is, you see the cost from the eyes of a local because you live there. When someone comes to Berlin for vacation, they spend more than I do, because they don’t know where to get things at a good price. But that’s not how it works with business travel, you calculate the median value and orient yourself to the market. I think that’s why @Klint and my proposal are so similar in terms of calculation.
One thing I can assure you after years of understanding people @stanisnear, when someone takes that much time and you certainly took at least an hour, even though someone from the marketing team has already reviewed the proposal and the pricing is very similar to his own proposal, it’s very personal.
But anyway, appreciate you taking the time and sharing your opinion on my proposal.
You should pay with your own money for expenses, hotels, and flights… and possibly also the ticketing.
What you can ask is the reimbursement of the tickets which could be also denied because your presence is not required and it is “out of scope” for marketing purposes.
What you are trying to do and what the other guy you cited is to mask your presence in the general attendance as an “invited guest” which you are not.
If you think your presence is required because you’re not a general guest but you have an invitation the reimbursement should be provided taking resources from the Event Budget, which I am sure the management is not willing to let you drink a bottle of Alentejo Riserva and eat T-Bone per day (by the way in Lisbon would cost around 30 euros).
Your estimation is incorrect, deeply wrong, and in all honestly, looks very dodgy there is no guarantee you will spend that kind of money in that manner.
So I really don’t see why you should be prized on top of what you already earn (which judging from estimations could vary between 50.000 to 80.000 per year) for an event you want to attend.
Hello @Ton618 and @stanisnear, thanks for caring doing reviews over proposals, and giving good feedback.
I will give my best now to add value to the discussion basically because I have been working with @Kemal all this 2022 supporting projects on NEAR, so I have my point of view.
Here you can see a report from our team:
In addition, @Kemal has been already proving value as a NEAR Community representative attending events, you can see one of his reports here:
So, as the NEAR Community already trusted this activity to Kemo and he has already gathered good experience in Business Development and knowledge over the NEAR Ecosystem, it will be beneficial to have him as:
Also, let’s take into consideration that every case is different.
In the case of NEAReans living there, they can attend the event without the need for funding thus, in comparison, there is a better ratio of value/costs, so it might not seem fair when others receive funding to be there, but let’s also take into consideration that those who travel there are leaving their families behind (like me I had a 2 months old kid, sharing pic now haha) and taking a lot of trouble to travel, so let’s accept not always can we reward the same every contribution when we are building a worldwide community…
The important point here is that we should never reward or help people who don’t deserve it, then is when the incentives will drive us backward. But rewarding and supporting members who add value to the ecosystem should be necessary.
Now, from your intervention @stanisnear, it seems we could build a standard for daily expenses to be used on further consensus events.
The creature I leave behind some days to know my partners, share experiences, and keep building together the web3
Before starting, I repeat, there’s nothing personal against you; if it took me some time to write this, it’s because I prefer stating facts with proper documentation before mentioning anything;
With that being said, your response does not reduce the value of the statements I made, by pointing to someone else’s proposal, unfortunately, I haven’t seen @Klint’s proposal which, if states the exact amount you’ve mentioned, is wrong.
This is not a finger-pointing game, I’m just trying to educate what the actual costs are as mentioned by @zubairansari07 as well, and get more information about what are your goals for the event and what value will you deliver to NEAR Con and the ecosystem.
If I had seen the request of Klint I would’ve responded with the same exact statements.
And that’s a great point that’s exactly why I’m educating since it will be your first time here, that’s literally the average cost if you visit any restaurant, I didn’t mention a specific place, I’m talking from a general tourist point of view, feel free to check with your eyes as well.
That’s correct. There probably will be a pre-event a day before, to organize the schedules and various tasks for the staff members, in which case I don’t think your presence must be required; in any case, you should count from the 10th till the 15th - 1 extra day for transfer purposes which makes it 4 nights.
I linked you hotels and apartments and also hostels which are the best solution in Lisbon btw, in a perfect central location and close to the venue
Am I talking to you or to Klint?
Yes, I did business trips and I had to cover expenses by own pocket which were covered after I sent the payments invoices.
If we re-calculate the previous amount and add €20 (which is way more expensive than the average transfer from the airport to the city center) from the airport to your accommodation and €20 for the return would still make a grant total of €130.
There’s also a metro station right in front of the airport, which takes around 25 mins to the center and will cost you a total of €3.50 to go and come back.
Are you also requesting cost reimbursement from your home country airport to your home? Even if that’s the case, the 240$ still won’t be reached.
Also, to add the cherry on the top
Here you go, I’m connecting to a private VPN in Switzerland and reopening the same page, I will also add my IP and location just for you to see that there isn’t any change:
As you can see, it’s the same exact website showing that the round trip costs €291, and also, as you can clearly see, if you want to add the checked baggage allowance, will give you a grand total of €344, which is lower than the requested amount.
Let me know if I should connect to a German VPN and take a screenshot or how you should book it.
With that being said, I’m not trying to attack anyone, but generally, being from the same team, this can have a negative impact and look on our colleagues and general team, for instance, I’m just sharing facts and opinions from personal experience.
This is not intended to offend anyone, and as you previously stated that a similar proposal was done and got approved, in that case better evaluation has to be done and I hope this serves as a lesson.
Please consider what value and long-term goal would such investment/request would provide to the ecosystem.
And the last thing, as mentioned previously, the best and most professional practice for such initiatives is usually by investing such funds by your pocket and when the event ends create a report by showcasing what you accomplished and then requesting an “expenses refund” based on various costs you had to cover.
Thanks for your prompt response and also CONGRATULATIONS!! He is so cute!
I just wanted to point out that there were some miscalculations and since this request also represents us and can put some bad eyes on us; in light of this, I wanted to educate of what the actual costs are and also just to get some clearance on what will Kemo do and bring during the event also to add the fact, since he was mentioned a couple of times, @Klint has clearly stated what he would do and that he will rappresenta Near Nordic and The marketing DAO which is completely different from rappresenting a team (the concierge team initiative) that will be suspended from next month.
I’m also saying this because I know other members of our team that unfortunately, aren’t that lucky to be in the same country of the event, for instance, they are flying outside Europe from their own pockets just to come here and appreciate NEAR and meet the community without asking a penny or mentioning it.
please maintain a constructive vibe and going towards solving the situation.
Now, before we diving into all the fund and expenses - May I ask the @marketingdao-council : Since when we are agreed to start funding individual to go on “business trip” and maybe establish “a new relationship/partnership”. This type of proposal does seems very OK with private/cooperate companies but pls be reminded that the @marketingdao-council is currently using the COMMUNITY FUNDING (not a private owned funding) so please consider a very thin-line between the individual-served-purpose proposal and community-beneficial proposal. Does the @marketingdao-council ever put this topic on the table and asking the community opinion about this ever? And Please, do not mis-concept and operate the councils like a centralised, private organisation. This is very against the culture we built on NEAR.
Now getting back to all recent proposal I saw lately regarding funding to NEARCon:
Again, I am very well-acknowledged of how much contribution these 3 individuals are putting into this Ecosystem and we as Community member are grateful for your service but please do not use it as an excuses to exaggeration your contribution since I believe you guys are getting well-paid by the Foundation as well. With that being said, I am very against the action of asking fund for this type of proposal because even if you have a great/transparency intention, there is no way it can avoid the possibility of misused fund or being bias in the favor of the individual. Therefor, please avoiding this type of proposal as much as you can.
Now, with the elephant is out of the room, let’s build solution to this type of proposal and the following is my suggestion.
Please cease to approve (also include approved proposal) any funding NEARCon journey proposal
@David_NEAR and the NEAR Foundation is currently working hard and finalise a funding programme for all the individual that wants to go to NEARCon (including support letter for visa applications, support funding, etc…) More detail will be announced soon.
In case the funding programme never came, please use your own money to fund the trip and later on, detailed report about the trip and ask for a claim. But bear in mind that this act like any proposal, you might able get approved or rejected.
With everything being said, please consider my suggestion as a constructive idea.
I already booked everything and hope to see everyone in NEARCon.
Big hug fam (quoted from @FritzWorm)
Well said! let’s keep good vibes and the community spirit
I agree with your concerns partner because we must look after community growth. The community is above the individuals, and we together build the web3 following consensus.
I have some ideas on how to start opening space for the community to express opinions and share their sentiment towards proposals, for example, the Community verticals we have right now are Marketing and Creatives - side note: we should also have a vertical for development - and those verticals could create a voting group on AstroDAO with the possibility to vote on polls but without “payout”, “bounty done”, “remove member” or “add member” rights.
→ Will be great to run a Twitter Space or something similar to sync and discuss about our decentralization and self-governance. As you have great experience hosting spaces I wonder if you want to lead that, I will follow you
I am glad many members want to take care of the Community funds! One year ago, it was just @Dacha fighting to cut the $20k monthly fund for SwineGuild MEMEs.
Well, caring for the community funds is a must. This is the way!
I wonder if this will get on time because the NearCon is the next month. Usually, people have to organize to travel with enough time and preparation.